Welcome to episode 66 of The Apparently Parent Podcast! In this one, I'm talking to Cody Butler.
Cody is the founder of Teen Success, and the creator of the “Teen Success Method”, where he teaches teens about confidence, self-esteem, and motivation. He's also the author of the best-selling books “Got Attitude” and “Cut The B.S – A No Nonsense Guide To Happiness”.
Cody's work has been featured on Fox, ABC, and NBC, and now – finally – in The Apparently Parent Podcast!
Where to Find Cody Butler and Other Resrouces
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Ep. 66 - Help Your Teenager Succeed in Life with Cody Butler
[00:00:00] Eran Katz: If you have a teenager at home, who's always on their screens playing video games or just texting with their friends. And you feel like they are not motivated to do anything else with their lives. You better listen to this episode. So stick around after the intro, you're listening to The Apparently Parent Podcast where we combine the art of parenting with the science of psychology.
I'm Eran Katz. And for over 10 years, as a clinical psychologist, I've been helping people from age six to 86, leave a happier, more flexible life. In the process I have learned about the things parents do to make or break a childhood and what turns children into happy, confident human beings. This podcast is for you.
The 21st century parents who believes that better parenting can make a better. So that's you and you're ready to elevate your parenting journey. Let's go. I'm your host, Eran Katz.
All right. My friend, welcome back to The Apparently Parent Podcast. Welcome to episode number 66, like the famous road in the U S and today I'm having a wonderful guest. And life's journey in life's goal is to help teenagers realize the full potential and motivations and find their way during this tremulous years of adolescence.
And in this conversations, you will learn a little bit more about how you can approach your own children. And if you have teenagers or you're about to have teenagers, you're going to. There is a gap between what you want them to be and where they are. And most likely you want to learn how to close the gap and get closer to them and help them get closer to.
So, this is what this all conversation is about. And without further ado, let's roll that tape. Hello everybody. My guest today has worked [00:02:00] with thousands of teenagers, helping them gain more confidence self-esteem and motivation. He wrote the number one bestselling books, got attitude and cut the BS a no nonsense guide to happiness.
I really love this title. And he was featured on major media outlets, such as Fox and ABC and NBC, where he shared his team success method. And now he's here with us on this show. Let's give a warm welcome to Mr. Cody Butler. Hello Cody.
[00:02:28] Cody Butler: Hey eran how's it going? Thank you for having me.
[00:02:31] Eran Katz: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for, for coming.
And let's just start with, maybe tell us a little bit about yourself and your background. And we are going to talk today about your work with teenagers and you helping teenagers in my words, maybe make the best out of their lives. Um, so I really wonder how did you come up? Um, come to do this work?
[00:02:55] Cody Butler: Yeah, that's a good question.
Thank you for asking. So it was back in. Oh, 2007, 2008, somewhere around there, probably where I was working as a, as a full-time musician. And part of, part of a musician's income is, is teaching. And as a guitar player, you can see some guitars in the room around here. Th th to make it into me, I had to teach and, and typically people that are attracted to guitar lessons tend to be teenagers.
So I was working with, with, with lots of teenagers and, uh, you got to keep the kids coming back. If you don't keep them coming back, you don't get paid. So that's having to find ways to motivate them and stuff like that. I, you know, I was into personal development and self-help, and really sort of. Uh, unlimited achievement mentality and stuff like that.
And I've started, started to work with the teenagers on, on the problems that they were having, you know, as we were having guitar lessons, obviously, you know, we'd be practicing scales, we'd have conversations and stuff like that, and really seeing some great results. And parents were coming to me all the time saying, Hey, I don't know what you're doing with my kid, but it's really working.
So it's a keep doing it, whatever it is that you're doing. So of course I knew what it was that I was [00:04:00] doing and that kind of, sort of. Uh, you know, where, where I started to work with teenagers really was, was just kind of by, by accident through the guitar lessons. Wow.
[00:04:09] Eran Katz: So it reminds me of, when I learned to play the guitar, I was like not, I was a little bit older than a teenager, like Maureen in my twenties, early twenties, but my teacher was kind of back then and.
A little bit more than just, you know, someone who taught me how to play the guitar. And we had, you know, conversations and about, about life and about music. And I think the things that was special about this guy was he looked at me not just as a young teenager who doesn't know anything about his life.
And like, he. Viewpoint towards me, kind of elevated me to think better of myself. So just pop into this thought just popped into my mind as you talked about it. And I wonder what you w what kind of maybe, what kind of struggles did you notice with those teenagers that you taught? Except if you know the hardships of trying to play.
[00:05:16] Cody Butler: Yeah. It's like the, the problem was, and this is the same for everybody, adults, teenagers, everybody is we're asked to do things without really understanding why we're doing them. Right. So it's like, we're asked to learn math. Well, what, you know, I thought for the longest time, and what's the point, what's the point of this?
So we're asked to learn geography history, or what's the point of this? We're, we're asked to learn these skills and go through these motions. And the problem is there's no outcome. There's no, there's no demonstrated outcome to it. So it's a case of like, It's helping people understand what is the outcome of what they're doing, which makes the task when the outcome is bigger than the task.
And the task becomes very easy. Right? So for me, it's like, I always wanted, I always wanted to play guitar. There was a reason, [00:06:00] reasons I wanted to play guitar and, and the outcome were bigger than the monotony that was required to get there, you know, hours and hours of practice and stuff like that. So it's like, I was able to sit there and it was never challenge for me to do these things because I knew why I was doing it.
And I knew what I was working towards. And whenever things got a little bit tough for me, I just looked at the bigger picture. So I think that the biggest challenge that we all face really as adults and children and teenagers and everything else is that. W we don't have a clearly defined vision of what, what it is that we're working towards and why it is that we want, what it is that we're working towards.
And if we don't have that, then the steps that we have to get to take, uh, we have to take to get there. They just become too difficult. They just become too monotonous and they just become pointless at some point. And we just give it up to say, well, why, why am I even doing this? What's what's.
[00:06:49] Eran Katz: Yeah, I totally agree.
It really resonates with the work either with parents or in my method, which is I call it the parenting map. This is why I have this map behind me in the zoom, um, screen. Um, one of the, I think one of the most important parts is, uh, defining your own purpose as a parent and, you know, really know what you're working towards and, you know, in my case, it's about.
Making the bond between you and your child, stronger helping your child become a happier, more confident also as an adult. And, and I think that when you, you do know where you want to go and it really helps you, you know, stay in the trenches and keep doing the, the work that sometimes it's, it's hard work.
And instead of just, you know, getting yourself all over the place, so maybe, maybe you. Um, maybe you can share a bit how you see in your everyday work with teenagers, teenagers, because now you're not teaching guitar anymore. Right. You're doing other things with teens. And how, how does it play [00:08:00] in with the work you're doing?
[00:08:03] Cody Butler: Yeah, so, so it's about like working with teenagers now, it's, it's really about helping them create a vision for their life and then giving them the tools, the steps and the necessary. Steps that they need to take to achieve that. So again, as even as adults, very rarely have we actually thought through what it is that we want and we may have thought it through in one era of our lives.
So we may have thought I would like, you know, I want this career or I want this outcome, but generally speaking, it's like, if I, if I, I mean, you're a parent. If I, if I ask parents, what's your goal for your relationship with your children? It's very vague and it's very undefined. And when I talk, when I, when I talk to teenagers, the first thing I say is like, look, you know, I want you to think about me.
Like, I'm the genie in the lamp, right? I'm the genie in the bottle. You just, when you, you, you know, you grabbed the bottle and the genie comes out and says, I'm your master. You have three wishes. It's like, this is not about fixing you because you're not broken. This is about helping you really figure out what it is that you want out of life.
And then giving you tangible, measurable steps that you can take to achieve that. And a lot of times we don't give our kids enough credit parents generally don't give their teenagers enough credit and I'll let you know, I'll ask questions like, well, what, what's your goal for your relationship with your mother and father?
What's your, what's your goal for your relationship with your, with your parents? And after just a very little bit of coaching, it's like the teenagers can form very articulate goals with very specific outcomes. Then it becomes very easy to help them achieve those goals. So, you know, like. A lot of times a teenager will, you know, when, when you coach them and you coax them and say, well, what's your goal?
What would you like to see happen with your parents? And they say, well, you know, I'd like a better relationship and then say, well, what are one or two simple steps that we can take today? This is going to help you do that. And if you have to ask questions like, well, what's your relationship for your health or what's your, your goal for your health?
What's your goals? And, you know, what's your desired outcome with your social group, with your friends, what's your desired outcome? [00:10:00] With your extracurricular activities? And quite often. Nine times out of 10. Th these things haven't even been considered. They haven't even been thought about. It's like, yeah, I
[00:10:09] Eran Katz: imagine that most of the times teens and will say something like
you're like, I don't know. I just want my parents to, you know, to get off my back. I just want my, the other people in my class, like me. I just want to have that girl or that boy, or I just want to stay home and play video games. I know it's a little bit character like a caricature of a teenager, but I guess that's sometimes, you know, teenagers don't have these vision boards of themselves that they can articulate.
[00:10:43] Cody Butler: Exactly that they can articulate it. They just need encouragement and help to get that out there. Just, you know, like it's not that they can't it's that they, they just haven't and something that hasn't even been thought about. Yeah. We really focused on, on sort of seven areas of life, you know, fit health, fitness, spirituality, relationships with friends, family, um, career goals, financial goals, stuff like that.
And th these are things that just haven't even being considered. And there is the reason, you know, they say, I just want to play video games. Like all the time parents go, my kid's not motivated. My kid's not motivated. So I guess it's not true. It's like, they're, they're plenty motivated. It's like, you can't get them off video games.
You can't get them off of the devices. They're plenty motivated. They're just not motivated to do the things that you want them to do. And the reason for that is it's very simple. It's like, if you, if you want to get a kid off a video game, here's the thing you gotta do. You gotta, you gotta. What level of satisfaction that video game is, is providing.
So if that video game is producing nine out of 10 entertainment satisfaction, and you're asking that kid to go do something that's six out of 10 or seven out of 10, of course, you're going to get feedback. You know, you're going to get resistance. Of course you are
[00:11:50] Eran Katz: sowing the lawn. Isn't as fun as playing a video game.
[00:11:53] Cody Butler: Exactly. Right. So it's like, the thing is like, you've got to understand, well, what, what's my child getting out of this and how can I [00:12:00] replace it? And it's the same with adults. I mean, we're exactly the same, you know, we're going to behave just like children. If we're doing something that we really like, and then we're forced to do something we don't like when we can see no sense in it, it's pointless.
Then we're going to have that little tantrum as well. We know we're no different. So it's really understanding, like, you know, what's your kid getting out of this and how can we help them find something that's going to be more productive, more entertaining, more satisfying.
[00:12:23] Eran Katz: Yeah. And the work that you're doing, um, and maybe a little in, in a short while, you can explain a little bit more about how that works, but is it focused on a teenager or the parents also have part of the work?
How does it work?
[00:12:41] Cody Butler: Yeah. We're working specifically with the teenagers predominantly, but obviously the parents are a massive, massive factor in the, in, in the issue. You can't go, you care to say, you're the problem in the home. It's like, well, you go back to the parents and it's like, that didn't happen in isolation.
Yeah. And the number of times where it's like, you know, one of the big problems I see is parents have such low expectations of their children and they have such negative opinions of their children. I mean, I, you know, I work with kids all the time where the parents. My kid is just not going to participate.
I, you know, my kid's not going to be into this. My kid's not going to want to do this. And it's like, we start in the kids. So Intuit, the kids so wants to do it, the kids. So like, because they, they know they're not happy. They know they're not fulfilled. It's that, you know, the teenager knows that there's more to life.
They just don't know how to access it. So the best way to deal with that is just to, you know, do, do what we do as adults. Just blot it out with distraction that's so it could be video games could be social media. It could be, you know, how a whole array of negative activity that we don't really want to see our kids do.
But, you know, all they're doing is that they're just literally just self-medicating themselves with video games because they have nothing else. You know, they, they, they're not happy with that. And it's like, once they start to see, it's like, Hey look, you know, there's a whole world out there that that's available to you.
That that's better than this, you know, it's better than what you're doing now. It's like, they're so [00:14:00] into it. They still want to do it. But quite often the parents, they just don't, they just don't apply that positive expectation to the, to the child. Yeah. It's like, well, how, how do you expect your kid to get better when you've got know, not get better, but how do you expect your kid to change their situation?
When you have such negative expectations of them? You know, you're, you're almost expecting your kid to fail.
[00:14:21] Eran Katz: Yeah. So when, like when, when the parent do not provide the necessary, um, boost of energy or wind for the sales of that teenager, the, they can really expect that kid to like propel him or himself forward.
But I wonder about like, kind of maybe kind of the mirror image of that. I'm not sure that's exactly right, but. What about parents who really, um, who do think that they teenagers, their kids can do better and they have these high expectations of them. And I can tell you a little bit about like my own memories from that time 20 something years ago.
So I remember my parents, a lot of times talking with me about what I want to do when I grew up on, I want to do in life. Never really pressuring me into a specific like spot. Uh, conversation, but you know, to be honest, I'm not really sure that I had any ideas of like, what are really, what kind of career I do.
I had fantasies. So I, back then as a teenager, I dreamed of being a filmmaker and I have a very robust fantasy of winning an Oscar, but it stayed on that level. And, and I, and I don't remember those conversations, like, what do you want to do if you life? And you shouldn't you like I chose to in Israel, when you go to high school and you kind of need to choose.
Topics that [00:16:00] learning subjects that you want to focus on and you learn more off. So I wanted to focus on, on cinema and I really remember those conversations of yeah. Yeah. Cinema is nice, but you have to focus on something practical, like math or physics, because then you'll want to go to university and all that.
And it was a clash of motivation maybe. And I don't remember those conversations as pleasant for me as a teenager. I just want to, how, um, how can we approach and those moments better? So I have children who are not yet in those, not yet teenagers, but in a couple of years they will be. So what kind of advice maybe you could share with me as a parent on that?
[00:16:46] Cody Butler: Yeah, sure. It's it's, it's a great question. So I mean, to two things really is the first thing is it's why, you know, I mentioned earlier on, like, we look at like seven areas of life, you know, academics being one of those, uh, you know, dreams, aspirations. So you get your dream bucket, but then you've got your practical buckets as well.
Right? So that's where yes, like being a filmmaker that that's, that's great, but that's like saying, Hey look, you know, just because you want to be a bodybuilder, doesn't mean you can neglect your diet. You can't just go to the gym all day, every day. So it's like, you've got it. You've got to look at every aspect of life and, and it's just having that, that balanced approach, we'll say, okay, well, look, I'm, you know, I fully support, I fully support your vision to be a filmmaker.
And, and you know, the first thing we'd look at data would be like, okay, well, what, what are some practical steps to get to. So a lot of times we had that big, you know, you know, I say, you can have be, or do anything you choose in life. Anything that you want. If you want to be a filmmaker, you can be a filmmaker, but it's not enough just to have the vision.
It's not enough just to have that, just holding that vision will not get you there. It's like, okay, well, what, what, what's something that you can do today, or, and it's going to, there's going to help that. What's something you can do tomorrow. What's, what's the plan we can put in place next week. So that's the first part of the missing pieces of the puzzle there.
You know, [00:18:00] brings people out of being a dream or into practical reality,
[00:18:04] Eran Katz: but he does have to start with the parent acknowledging that dream as something that's
[00:18:09] Cody Butler: viable the parents. Yeah, exactly. Right. It's like, you know, as soon as soon as the parent starts saying, Hey, that's not far, but it's like, you put in limitations that, that aren't really there.
So it's a case of like, I would definitely encourage that, but I would also give steps to do that. But at the same time, it's like, okay, well we, you know, we can't get unbalanced here. We can't, you can't. Spend 100% of your time on being a filmmaker. It's like, those are the aspects of your life as well. Like, you know, that's why we've got to look at the goals for what, you know, your social life or your, for your spiritual life or your academic life.
Uh, maybe it's, you're going to be 35 years old before you break as a filmmaker. So what are you going to do to support yourself in the meantime? That's a possibility as well. So it's like, it's, it's having that conversation and saying, okay, But look, a lot of times the academics, like without the academics, you're never going to be a filmmaker because you never, you know, it's like, you've got, you've got to support yourself in the meantime.
Right. Very few, you know, I doubt see Steven Spielberg made his first blockbuster at the age of 18, right out of school. He probably had some, some income generating activities before that, that allowed him to, to fund what he was doing. Right. So it's like, you know, if you neglect that aspect, all these things work.
Having a job and an income and an education and academic qualifications that all works together because you're going to have to fund your life before we come in a filmmaker.
[00:19:36] Eran Katz: So in a sense, you're like structuring, um, different areas of life, but they all work synergistically together, supporting whatever motivation the kid is having.
[00:19:49] Cody Butler: Exactly, exactly right. It's like, I mean, it's, like I said, you can't. You can't just focus on one area and exclude all of the others. You're going to get a lot of imbalance there. [00:20:00]
[00:20:00] Eran Katz: So how, how do, how do the teams that you work with, eh, get to you in the first place? It does it come from their parents. Like they, they noticed something like, for me, I'm a therapist and sometimes parents call me because they are worried about their teens.
Rarely it's the teenager who says, Hey mom, dad, I want to see a shrink, you know, but I wonder how, how does it happen, you know, with you? How, how do you,
[00:20:32] Cody Butler: yeah. Yeah. Good question. So obviously like, you know, teenagers in mind is we don't, we don't advertise to minors. We don't, we don't sell to children and stuff like that, that the parents of the client, you know, we don't, we don't.
Show marketing messages to minors in any way, shape or form. So all of our, all of our marketing is targeted towards parents and it's the parents that come to us for a variety of reasons. Right? So some are quite serious. Some are not so serious, you know, from, from say, you know, it could be stuff. We've tried everything and we're a complete loss.
We've, we've been to therapy. We've been to summer camps. We've been through these programs. We've changed schools and we have no idea what to do next. You know, that, that that's a small percentage of people. And then there are other people that just go, Hey, look, you know, We just acknowledged that we don't know what we don't know.
And we'd like to make sure that our child has the best opportunity. So, Hey, you know, would you be willing to work? Would you be willing to work with our son or daughter for, for a period of time to, to really help them explore what it is that they want? You know, so that, that that's sort of the scale. And usually it's somewhere in between.
So typically, you know, a very common scenario. Uh, yeah, spending too much time on video games, spending too much time on social media, withdrawn from the family, not really communicating, uh, you know, not really participating in the family environment and, and the, the, the parents just want to see the kid [00:22:00] spending more time with the family and less.
With the distractions that that's a very common, that's a very common situation that we see. And I'd say that's probably the most common situation, but yeah, the parents come to the parents come to us saying, Hey, you know, can you help with this situation a hundred percent of the time?
[00:22:15] Eran Katz: And I guess that when, you know, when you start working with the teenager, you hear a different kind of scenario complaint.
Like the parents say, listen to that. And the child says. I I'm worried about other things. Like, I, I like playing video games, but I don't want to spend time with my family because they don't understand me or, uh, I don't care about that, but I do care about how rejected I am at school, for example. So do you, do you have.
Types of clashes of, um, maybe needs or wants between the parents and the kids and you have to navigate
[00:22:55] Cody Butler: between those. Yeah. So, so the thing to understand that, you know, the first thing that we try to make both parties understand really the distance from here to here is the same as the distance from here to here, right?
The D so this is the parent, and this is the kid. The distance is the say from the distance is the same. So w when, uh, teenagers go, my parents just don't get me. The question is. Is it possible that you don't get your parents as well? Is it possible that you made up? So, yes, I acknowledge. I agree that you don't get your parents don't get you, but is it possible that you don't get your parents?
You know, can we, can we start the conversation there because the distance between you and your parents is the same as the distance from your parents, right? So the frustration is the same, right? It's not like, you know, you're this far away from what they want and they're this far away from what you want.
That's not true. The distance is exactly the same and that's really important just in human interaction. It's like when there's conflict, the distance between the two parties is identical, always. So when, when, when somebody disagrees with me, it's like I'm as far away from their viewpoint as they are from mine, [00:24:00] it's not, you know, and.
It's a very good place to understand, safe, to start the understanding from is just say, Hey, is it possible that you don't get your parents? And then the next question is like, yeah, but my parents are a pain. Well, is it possible? Is it possible? Do you think, is there a chance that you're paying to your parents?
Yeah. Is it, is it possible that you're causing them the same issues that they're causing? Is that, is that a possibility? And it's like, once you get them to acknowledge that, which is really quite easy to do, then it's like, okay, so we both have a role in this. Both parties have a role in this date, you know?
Yes. Your parents have got some stuff they need to do, but the, you have some stuff that you need to do to make this better, or, you know, and nine times out of 10, not always, it's like, you know, you can get the teenager to go. Yeah. Okay. I can see where I have a role in the reconciliation. I can see where I have a role in this, and that's a great place to start.
So once you're there. Then then the conversation becomes quite easy. So same with school. When, when, you know, if somebody is feeling rejected or excluded, it's like, well, Hey, is it possible that you're rejecting somebody? Or is it possible that you're excluding somebody? Yeah, it is. It. Sorry, go on. Yeah, I
[00:25:08] Eran Katz: know.
I understand what you want to say. And I was just wondering, so once you get the child to acknowledge that they have a role in the situation, it's not that the parents are at least old timers who don't understand me. Yeah, they, maybe they don't, but I don't. I have my role as well. What now? What, how do you.
The child makes some moves because make some moves towards, towards the parents. Because when you say that, you know, the distance between the parent and the child is the same, I guess you want to make them, you know, help them get closer to each other by approaching some kind of a middle ground. So how, how do you help the child do some steps towards, towards the parents or towards school or whatever that, that point is?[00:26:00]
[00:26:00] Cody Butler: Yeah, so that, that's a great question. So yeah. So the next stage is once the, once the awareness is there now, now the now there's problem awareness, right? There's problem awareness. Hopefully I'm in both parties. It's like, we've got to start help. We've got to start providing the steps necessary or help provide the steps necessary.
So because the, the, the knowledge and the skills for reconciliation and not, there are no. Generally speaking. So we've got to start. Yeah. I haven't been uncover what those steps are. So a lot of times, like the first session or the second session, it could be something simple as like, you know, the, the, the child will say, Hey, look, you know, I want a better relationship.
I do want a better relationship with my parents. I just, you know, I just don't know how to make that. I just don't know how to make that happen, which is fair. You know, that's, that's a fair point. I
[00:26:44] Eran Katz: wouldn't expect the child to, to know what
[00:26:46] Cody Butler: to do. Yeah. And that's where it's like, okay, well, you know, could you see when we finished this call, could, could you go to your parents and just say, you know, thank you for arranging this for me.
I appreciate it. And then just leave it at that. Walk away, just leave it at that simple, simple sample. Can you do that simple step? Can you commit to that for next week? You know, something really simple. That's going to get a positive. And, and of course they can, I'm like, you you'll be, you'll be astonished if you just go to your parents, when you, when you hang up, when you get off this call and say, Hey, look, I appreciate you arranging this for me.
I really do. And then we'll talk about it next week. And then the next week it's like, okay, well, what's something that's really simple, you know? And it's silly stuff. Usually it's like, you had a session of the day where it was like, you know, the aggravation was like, the kid didn't want to shower. And it's like, is it really, is it really that.
Is it really asking too much? I'm like, if you, if you was to, you know, you're shower once a week now, what if we brought that up to three times a week? Could you do that? Could you, could you make that, could you make that compromise? I'm like, it doesn't have to be a long shower. It can be a one. It doesn't matter.
One minute is fine. Just commit to me, you know, are you serious about having, you know, [00:28:00] a more, more peaceful house and then have something that, you know, are something in return? Or something in return that's reasonable. You don't have to give and not receive. It's like, you know, think, think about it. Like if you commit, you know, if you go to your parents, say, look, I commit to Sharon three days a week, or I commit to Sharon five days a week.
Could you give me, could you give me this in return? You know, and be reasonable. Don't, you know, don't, don't, you know, don't give a penny and us for a dollar, you know, whatever, whatever you're giving you can ask for the equivalent. But you've got to start to say that, like, maybe your parents aren't as unreasonable as you thought, and parents, maybe you're going to see that your child is not as unreasonable as you thought.
It's like, and it's just little things it's like, okay, just little things, little things. Can you do this? I, you know, if you're committed to having it, you know, more time on the video game, right? So you want more time on the video game to say, okay, well, look, I'll tell you what I'll, I'll commit to shower in five days a week, but can you give me an extra 30 minutes a day on the video again?
Yeah, that that's, you know, that's a fair compromise for me. That that's a fair. Yeah. So it's given simple steps that aid it's small, but they can see positive results from those steps. So, you know, it's, it's like the Bible says line upon line precept upon precept here, a little there, a little it's hair, a little there, a little line upon line precept upon precept is that we're not going to build the wall.
[00:29:27] Eran Katz: Yeah. And I really like how you structure into this, the, the concept of responsibility, because I think one of the major roles of, of becoming an adult and teenager are in this exact transition is assuming more responsibility about yourself and about your environment and do something we don't tend to expect of little kids, like three years old, but as they grow up and you do expect them to have more.
More self-awareness and more, [00:30:00] um, out external awareness and care and responsibility in, in, and I think in the work that you just described, just by asking the child to acknowledge, you know, as this.
[00:30:13] Cody Butler: Um, just banging on the window there.
[00:30:17] Eran Katz: Um, so you do you do college, the teenager to say, Hey, I have some responsibilities as well.
If I step up to that, just my base baby steps, I will feel better about myself. My parents will see me in a different. And in different light, because I imagine I imagine those parents and when, when the child, after the first or second session with you goes up to them and tell them, Hey mom, dad, I really appreciate, appreciate you for setting this up for me.
And, you know, I imagine the shock and the nice shock that's not
[00:30:55] Cody Butler: expected. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, one of the things that, one of the philosophers that we teach. You know, when you've transitioned, transitioned fully from childhood into adulthood is when you take full responsibility for everything in your life.
That is when you that's, when you're an adult. And it's like, that can happen at 11 years old, that can happen never in your life. Right. So when, when you, accept full responsibility for everything that is in your life, that is when you fully transitioned into adulthood and I'll be talking to someone and they'll say, my parents just treat me like I'm a kid and yeah.
You're acting like a kid, you know, w when you're not taking responsibility, it's like, that's, that's something that we lay down early on. Right? It's like, Hey, you know, you want to be, you want to be treated like an adult. Here's how an adult behaves. They take full responsibility, good, bad, or ugly for everything in their lives.
And when the kid comes back and says, yeah, but the problem is my parents are treating me like a kid. My teachers are treating me like a kid. It's like, yes, but you're acting my quiet. Don't don't hold them. Don't. Despise them for treating you like a child when you're acting like a chart, acknowledge that you're acting like a charter, start acting like an [00:32:00] adult.
If you act like an adult and they still treat you like a child, come back and talk to me. But right now that they're treating you appropriately because you're acting like a little kid. And as soon as, as soon as it's hard for
[00:32:11] Eran Katz: them to hear that.
[00:32:13] Cody Butler: Well, I mean, th th th th the truth is hard to hear always.
Yeah. But it's the truth that will set you free. It's the truth that will give you, you know, abundance and, and things that you're looking for. It's like, yeah. You know, you can't break free of the bonds that you're in without being told the truth. So yeah, it is very hard and that's why a lot of people, even in adulthood fail to reach their full potential, just because the truth is something they do not want to hear.
[00:32:41] Eran Katz: Okay. So, um,
I just wonder, because you know, The listeners of the solar, mostly parents. And, yeah. Um, are there any specific, or, you know, red lines or kind of pitfalls that you notice parents may fall into with their teens and that they should try to avoid? I know it's a very big in general question, but maybe from your experience, you have some, some bigger ones that you notice.
[00:33:14] Cody Butler: So think got understand as a parent and, you know, and again, I mean, life in general is that perception is reality. So it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what your intention is. It doesn't matter how your per se how your behavior and the way it's perceived is reality for the child. So, you know, if the child thinks that you're behaving in a certain way, it doesn't matter whether you are or not, that's their perception and that's reality.
And that's very important to understand. So a lot of. Like a parent will be pushing a child educationally, for example, that's a common one, you know, better grades, better grades, better grades, better grades, but the child doesn't see that that's in their best interest. They said as this is a status symbol for the parent, you know, I, I want my child to go to university.
Well, that's a status symbol for the parent. I want you to, I want you to look [00:34:00] nice. I want you to shout that's that's for the parents better. It's not for the child's benefit. And it's like, you know, if you're telling, if you're, if your teenage boy is not sharing or, you know, has hygiene issues, and you're saying, Hey, you know, you need to shower.
You need to shower, you need to shower or whatever. It's like, you got up and you got to make sure that they're not, they understand that that's in their interest and it's for their benefit. It's not for your benefit because a lot of times that's going to be perceived as by the child, as for the parents.
You just, you don't care about me. You only care about yourself. You don't care about what's going on in my life. You only care about how that looks in your social group, around your friends, around your peers. So, and I know that's not true from coming from the parents. The parents are coming from a place of love and concern, but you got to that.
The parent has to understand that it's not being perceived. So understanding that how it's being perceived and then work on the perceived reception of the message, not the message itself. We
[00:34:55] Eran Katz: have to always be thinking about how, yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And I think it's something that I tend to work a lot with parents that I talk with their ability to see things from the child's perspective and all the other way around.
So, and, and actually realizing that it's their role to, to have this bigger perspective, not the child's role to see the things that they want to see. And yeah, it's a very important thing for parents to understand that when, when they act in, I will just add that. It's not only what you say, so that we're really a lot about how you say things to your child.
Um, you have to try and see things from their point. And when you do that, when you can make the jump between your perception and their perception, as well as you can, um, you, you will be in such a better place for conducting conversation, really good phone conversation with your child, because they will feel seen and heard and understood.
And even if you don't agree with each other, when, [00:36:00] when both parties feel understood and seen it makes the conversation a lot better. That's
[00:36:05] Cody Butler: right. That's right.
[00:36:07] Eran Katz: Okay. Awesome. So just before we finish up, just two questions to wrap up with. Um, the first one would be, um, just, if you want to share with us working, my listeners, learn more about you and your work and the stuff you do.
And, um, you know, the teen success, um, method, where should they
[00:36:30] Cody Butler: be? So teen success.com.edu is a good place to start that off. That'll get you in touch with our social media. You can get on a newsletter list. If you want to talk to us, then all of the information is there. If you're interested in any, uh, any of our programs or the information's there.
[00:36:46] Eran Katz: All right. So that's teen success.com Dota you, I will put the links in the show notes. Of course, it's episode on Apparently Parent dot com. And I like to, um, finish my conversations with guests with, um, a question that I ask everybody. And I want you to try, and I don't know how old your kids.
[00:37:10] Cody Butler: Five three
[00:37:11] Eran Katz: and one.
Okay. For your man. So, you know, go, go back in time, like five to six years ago before you became a dad. And if you could take this younger Cody for coffee or drinks or whatever you like to have, and just have a nice conversation, you know, on the precipice of becoming a parent, what would you like to tell that.
[00:37:35] Cody Butler: Yeah. May make the most of those young, young, early years because they go by really fast, really, really fast, you know, it's, uh, you know, dump don't don't begrudge any of it. It's, it's all precious. And your, your, your miss it as, as time goes on. And so make the most of it. Yeah.
[00:37:55] Eran Katz: All right. Yeah. And those, those are years that are different to cherish, a [00:38:00] difficult to cherish at the beginning when you don't sleep and you know, everything's a mess, you're going to
[00:38:05] Cody Butler: have them forever.
That's right. You think there's going to be like that forever, but actually it's just a few minutes. You've got that.
[00:38:10] Eran Katz: Yeah. Yeah. Looking at things as temporarily is really useful also for, for teenagers, because I can, I know how. Teenagers can sometimes feel like they, their whole lives are really, really difficult.
And when they can acknowledge that you acknowledged that it's a couple of years and usually it gets better, especially if you get some help along the way. Yeah, you will look back at that period of time. I don't know if you will miss it, but you will look back at it and you know, you might smile. That's right.
Yeah. Awesome. Thanks Carly for this conversation. And as I said, links to your website and everything will be on the show notes. So if you guys want to learn more about how to, how to get your teenager, kids more motivated, more thinking about their, what I want to do and you know, Joe don't judge. Quote unquote, spend their lives doing nothing.
I think there's a lot that you can learn, um, from, from your work. Uh, I've I've heard other things that you were presenting. There's a lot of information that you're giving on the website. So I think there's a nice rabbit hole to dive into. And so I hope people will go, go visit that.
[00:39:31] Cody Butler: Thank you, Erin.
[00:39:36] Eran Katz: Alright. Alright. Alright. That was my conversation with Cody Butler. I really hope you enjoyed that. I just want to stress a one point that we talked about later in the episode that I think is really, really important. And that's how you, as a parent can try to. Move your point of view into that of your child.
So all the [00:40:00] time we are looking at our children and, uh, and that's true for everybody, not only for us and our children, we always look outside to the world and we see things from our own perspective, but as much as we can. Try to shift our perspective into other people's perspective and try to see how the world seems from their viewpoint viewpoint.
We can better empathize with how they see lives and what life is for them. We don't have to agree with how they feel, but we can. Empathize with that. And that's really helpful. And I will say necessary if you want to have a good relationship with your child. And it doesn't matter if your child is a teenager, like in the conversation I had with Cody, or, you know, maybe have a toddler, it's the same thing.
And it's actually something we tend to do more with really little children. They don't really know how to articulate their own viewpoints. Like when they're little, little toddlers. So we kind of look at things from their viewpoint and try to explain it to them when we talk. So when you say to a baby or a little toddler, oh, you're angry right now because you, I, I.
Something that you wanted to play with, because I didn't want you to break it for example, or you were hungry and we don't have anything that you like to eat. We only have broccoli. I don't know if it's a real conversation, but. When we can do that. Also we are, um, all their kids and with our spouses and everything, our everyone around us, we don't, again, we don't have to agree with them and we don't have to give up on our own needs and perspective, but when we can jump between those perspectives and see things from their point of view, we will have a much better stance.
And we for children and [00:42:00] we can help them understand themselves and understand us and we can approach them better. So that's the one thing that I wanted to add to the mix. And with that, let's finish this episode today at the show notes for this episode, our, again, our usual Aaron, Apparently Parent dot com forward slash podcast.
You will find the link. Kali's website, you will have a transcript of this conversation if you would like to read it. And. As always, I really hope you enjoy this episode. If you haven't subscribed to this show, please do so on whichever platform you like to listen to your podcast on. And please I will really appreciate it.
If you leave a review on apple podcasts for us, you know, just go there. Show how many stars you want. And a couple of words, I want to hear the good, I want to hear the bad. This helps me make this show better. And it also helps me get in front of more people who do. To hear this message. So I would really appreciate if you will do that.
And yeah, I will see you again next week with a fresh episode of The Apparently Parent Podcast have a wonderful week in between today.
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The Apparently Parent Podcast
On this show, I share with you my perspectives and experience of parenting and psychology.
Enhance your understanding of the relationship with your child and yourself by learning about attachment, mindful and playful parenting mindset and techniques.
Listen to me sharing my knowledge and experience both as a parent and a therapist, as well as interviews with parenting experts from around the world.
Your Host – Eran Katz
I’m a clinical psychologist and parenting counselor specializing in attachment theory. I’m also the father of two children who are my best parenting teachers.
I believe that parenting is one of the most important jobs we ever do. This is why I created Apparently Parent and The Parenting MAP. My goal in life is to help as many parents as possible become 21st Century Parents, moving from chaos to harmony and building an enduring, meaningful relationship with their children.